--
This was a tongue-in-cheek discussion between Atheists and one of our recent converts to Islam, Ryback - Ray.
Ben and Omrow assissated Rayback somewhat, but he was fine on his own.
He is a funny student.
--
Why I love Heaven
Hi,
I am Ray, a recent convert.
I became a muslim after seacrhing around for a while.
I love the idea of life after death and thats why I converted to Islam.
I am still at university. I have many Atheists friends.
If you have any questions, then dont be shy, just ask me. I dont mind questions.
I hated the idea of death and thats it everyone ended. I wanted to know if there was more to exitence than ending up as worm food in the grave rotting away into nothing.
--
Replies n Bold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protium
The majority of religions sell their wares with a promise of eternal life.
Which particular aspect makes you sure Islam is the correct one?
Wanting something to be real doesn't make it real.
No it doesnt.
Ala was the best because He sounded the most reasonable God to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenericBox
Come on. I hate the idea of death too. I am shit scared of it.
But not liking the idea doesn't change the fact.
I agree. That is my point too.
Not liking the idea of Heaven does not change the fact either.
Heaven is not there because I wished it to be there.
Life after death is there because God wished it to be there.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid
'he sounded the most reasonable God to me..."
sooo, does this mean then there's more than one god?
You took my words out of context.
When someone asked me:
"Which particular aspect makes you sure Islam is the correct one?"
I replied that:
When I searched world religions, Ala sounded the most reasonable God both mytphysically and scietifically, hence He must be the true Supreme Being. The so-called gods of other faiths sounded absurd to me. I believe they were invented as opium for the masses.
That is what I meant by the quote you gave.
I am not up for accepting unreasonble concepts. I study Astro-Physics at the University. I am new to religion. I was an Atheist two years ago. I do not know Arabic. I have never been to any muslim country. There are very few muslims where I live. Its mostly Christians and Atheists all around me.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protium
If you study and understand Astro-Physics how/why would you consider an irrational concept such as god?
Well, not all scientists are Atheists you know.
A few scientist are believers in God.
You should read more.
Your biased assumption that God is a fake,
does not make that wish come true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless
Sorry, I have been trying not to ask this question but
Ray you keep spelling it 'Ala'... is it not Allah or alah?
Or am I missing something?
Yes.
The sacred name and its sound is said to be powerful.
The research of its effects on human brain is being done by some Neurologists.
Ala is the name of the true God.
The name of God is spelt in various different ways in English and European languages.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenericBox
Lol and the logical fallacies begin.
Yes.
If you truly knew logical fallacies, then you would
know how they really begin.
I will give you a clue.
They begin like this:
Quote:
Believe me, from experience...
--
I already knew that you were going to write that pathetic piece.
Now SUBMIT you stubborn individual !
--
I dont mind criticisms or questions.
Ala loves those who honestly question things.
Holy Prophet Mohamed told us that questions are the beginnings of scientific discovery and a path to knowledge.
However, if you guys are nothing but serial mockers, then I would
have no option but to surrender to you laughingly.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenericBox
But, I will concede the questions may have been lost amongst the mockery, so here they are, plain and simple:
What evidence do you have that proves that there is a god?
What evidence do you have that proves that Allah is the God?
OK.
I will try to be reasonable with you, since you seems to have a good head on your shoulders.
You say you want to know the evidence.
But I say that you wont understand the evidence. Like a child who barely knows how to add numbers is certainly not capable of comprehending the formula for the area of a circle, let alone higher pure mathematics. He wont understand what the hell pi is. He will only yell what is this crap radius squared.
So, how can you see that the evidence for God on this paper in front of me is indeed real? You cant even see things in front of you.
Its going to have to be this way: Addition, then subtraction, then multiplication then division, then ratios, then other things, then onto radius and figuring out everything about the circle.
Without the scientific process, you will not get anywhere. You will remain in circles.
You still dont understand what pi is.
On a lighter note: Watch that movie called "PI".
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Well, you don't seem to have questioned your own faith very deeply.
If you cannot read the Arabic and dissect the content of your book, what makes you so sure your faith is right?
And where is your god now?
How can one perceive it directly?
God is not a phycical materical object which you can see with your eyes and touch with your hands.
As to questioning what I know to be true:
You dont question what you know to be correct.
You only question what you doubt.
Do you ever question if you have ten fingers?
Its not any book that led me to believe in Heaven.
It was pure logic, and the questioning of absurdetities.
You also asked about Arabic:
Not knowing Arabic is not a problem.
People who do not know German can still know the truth about Hitler's activities.
For you, I am using baby reasoning here because its your baby questions and objections that forces me to do this. If you grow up a bit, then we can talk proper logic as humans are meant to.
But if you continue to swing on trees like chimps, then I would still explain things but break them down into very simple parts for you to understand.
--
Sorry. I was answering the pretty chick at the door. You got to give it to them if they are gagging for it. Practise for my virgins in heaven.
Anyway, I have now re-edited the post to include replies to first part.
--
Please do bother to read my replies
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenericBox
If that is how you think, I sincerely suggest you look for a new career. Your attitude already sets you up for fail in science.
And shows your complete lack of understanding of the scientific process. I would not even accredit you with a primary school science education let alone a tertiary one.
You would be surprised how good my professor says I am.
He does not agree with my research on God and Heaven, but he agrees with science parts of my studies.
Did you know scientific process is evolving all the time?
In your biased view, the scientific method might be stagnant, but in real life, it is advancing all the time.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Play the scientist. Give us some facts.
Mr Black.
You are a dishonest person. You lied about me.
You still expect to be given anything?
Dream on.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmoigle
I'm only guessing, but here's what I think:
You are not at university.
You don't have any atheist friends.
You are not a muslim.
You are some sort of god botherer who thinks it might be fun to stir up the unbelievers.
You chose to portray yourself as a muslim in order to protect the deity in which you do believe.
Trouble is, you know nothing about Islam and that's why you seem like such a goose on this forum.
Well, there is no limit to the number of guesses that Atheists can make.
Guessing seems to be Atheists favourite last resort.
Most Atheists lack both facts and reason.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Where have I lied?
You say you're a lot of things, but all I have so far is attack and accusation.
Dont pretent that you dont know. You cant fool everyone.
You have lied about me in the "You want the Truth" thread.
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
I bet you are no closer to sharing your "truth" with the group when I come back. Prove that you're not just here to troll.
After being caught lying, you need to prove your honesty before you wish to see the truth.
Liars are not worthy of anything but Hell.
--
My replies are bolded within Doer's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoer
Come on now, you're not the first, and won't be the last. but before we dispell you, please at least try to show this 'evidence' which only you seem to understand.
Dispell me?
I expect nothing but censorship and absurdity from most Atheists.
Only a few Atheists I come across can think properly.
Most Atheists are incapable of basic reasoning.
They lack intellectual capacity to debate and evaluate evidence.
Who knows, maybe some of us might understand it after all, just have not seen it in your light yet.
Thats true. Some of you might indeed know more than just adding together two numbers, and, therefore, might understand what the formula for areas of a circle is.
Talking about atheist arrogant. Yet, making wild claims without evidence. 'Evidence' seems like such a precious commodity, that you somehow can't show?
It is most Atheists, like you, who wrongly assume, without logical backing, that there is no evidence for existence of a place like Heaven.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaar-Gilon
Please explain,Ray, how anything that is not material can exist and how it could possibly interact with the physical.
Ray something made of nothing (immaterial) is no thing!
And you talk about science!! Making claims that islam and thus allah is scientific yet by definition something that cannot be seen or touched because it is immaterial cannot be tested or measured and is hence outside the realms of science!!
Another explanation you need to make!
Ok.
Since you have asked some reasonable questions, I will attempt an answer. Its rare to see an Atheist with a head on his shoulders.
Scientists have suggested multi-dimentional existences.
They even said that there may be more than one type of universe which may be totally different than our own.
Bare with me. I cannt fully put into words what scientists have so far tried hard to explain. Even I dont fully understand quantum physics. I see the equations and believe in them, but I dont fully know how they work. Nobody does.
Scientists have not ruled out non-physical type of existence.
Ala is said to be similar to intellect. He is a Supreme Being. He is totally different to something we can imagine. Intelligence itself is not a material thing. You cant touch it or see it. Scientists say there a whole world beyond our censors.
I dont know if I am making sence or not. But we all know that science is still said to be in its infancy. Once science advances to a higher level, maybe we would detect other type of exitences. What sounded impossible 300 hundred years ago is reality today. What they could not detect then, scientists can detect in 21st century. Just because something is undetectable today, does not mean it will remain undetectable forever. That is not logal reasoning. We have to keep our minds open. Mocking scientific possiblities was done before. Lets not do that again.
--
If I ever stop posting here, it would only means that moderators have banned me.
They have already banned me from posting on other threads.
I am allowed to post only in this section.
I am not permitted to comment, or to begin a new topic on,
for example, Atheists in other sections of this forum.
Maybe they are affraid to intellectually take on a believer?
Who knows.
The fact, however, remains that they have censored me with a gagging order.
I can somewhat understand the suppression of free speech by Atheists.
They dont like their boat rocked. Its so cozy for them.
However, to be fair, I would have to say that
many Religion Forums on the internet also
deny Atheist the rights to freely express themselves.
On some faith forums, Atheists are forced to stay in the animal section.
That too is anti-free speech behaviour. Its not nice.
If I had my own forums, I would let anyone say whatever they liked.
No restrictions. I am a great advocate in REAL freedom of expression.
In my forums, there would be no denial of free speech.
Of cource, insults by members would hurt me, but I would not censor them at all.
I am tolerant of Atheists.
Thats is true freedom of speech.
Everything else is just a cheap pretence.
My holy book, the Koran, is greatest book of liberty and freeedom in the world.
Just read it and see.
It is shame that most of my muslim brothers and sisters do not read it properly.
Muslims and other believers in God do not really practise freedom nor democracy.
Prime Minster Tony Blair once said "the Koran is far ahead of its time".
Ala is the greatest provider of liberty.
You can insult Him, He wont rip out your tongue.
The fact is that Ala is the Supreme Being.
He gives you freedom to do whatever you like and say whatever you.
This is Ala's Earth.
If God wanted, He could have stapled the stupid lying mouths of you monkeys.
Ala has the Power to do this. But He does not do that.
--
I only advocated freedom of expression, and you guys are
condemning me as if I did a something terrible.
Whats wrong with you Atheists?????
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedApe
Ray?
Are you there Ray?
Earth calling Ray. Come in Ray.
We seem to have lost Ray. What a pity.
I am here, and not going anywhere unless Im banned from these forums.
However, since I am restricted from posting on other sections here,
I can only talk in this "fantasy island" threads.
I am being denied freedom to defeat the godless Atheists.
I wonder why.
Anyway,
I am member of other forums such as Atheist Discussion.
Other forums do allow religious people a bit more freedom than you guys allow.
Go and see.
I can post anything anywhere.
Although they disagree with God and Heaven stuff,
there they dont gag believers as much as you guys do:
Anway, in that forum also, the 73 virgin topic was a riot.
They all ganged up on me.
I dont know why people object so much to muslims enjoying pretty women.
--
Sorry for the delay guys.
I got caught up with a Brazilian chick. She was hot.
Some of you made these remarks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protium
Ahh.. You're back Ray.
Obviously you're very busy with your astro-physics study and I guess you missed my question. It really is a conundrum for me.. Can you explain if neutrinos have a rest mass?
You have no idea what exists beyond atoms.
Anway, dont try to change the subject.
We are talking about ladies here.
But you would rather talk about particles the size of your brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridescence
The more I think and read about religion, the more I lose that deeply ingrained
"oh live and let live - I don't care what religion people practice as long as they are not doing it at my front door"
and move more towards "NO!
This retardation of humanity must be stamped out!!
So you want to wipe out believers.
You are actually no different than Al Qaeda who also want to wipe out infidels.
You both are oppressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoer
If you say that the 73 Virgins do not have the same feelings and understandings as an earth woman. They are programmed to want to serve you. Then basically, your saying you'll be doing robots.
Come to think of it, 73 is a small number for eternity. What happens when you get bored...
God says that these 73 virgins are so pretty that I would never get bored with them.
You only have to remember as to who made them.
Ala is the Best Designer in the Universe.
Divinely created virgins are God's unique work of art.
I just cant imagine how beautiful they must be.
I cant wait to get their and lay my eyes on my beauties.
Virgins of Heaven are said to be so good looking that in comparison even the prettiest Miss World would be vomitable.
I will be having endless romantic time with those beauties.
They are not robots. They are more fully feminine.
Real women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaar-Gilon
Try post something intelligible I dare you!
Perhaps you could answer Protiums question about nuetrinos and rest mass (or light and rest mass if you are so inclined).
Do you even know what intelligible is?
The problem is that most Atheists are so deluded in their own thinking that they cannot comprehend basic common sense things.
A 10 year old kid has more logic than Atheists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
And when muslims are "enjoying pretty women" are they not raping them?
This is the kind of Atheist irrationality I am talking about.
What kind of a question is that?
Do one have to rape in order to enjoy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrax Robustus
OK Ray - I'm game. Start a thread on the Island and I'll take you on - Subject is your choice!
Ray - My boat is on offer to you. Rock away!
Are women not good enough for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoer
As for the 73 Virigins, what is a female muslim gonna do with them?
A handsome hunk.
--
I am not going talk about neutrinos because this topic is about Heaven and what pleasures awaits me there.
You can call me a liar. Thats ok with me.
You dont have to believe that I am studing science.
Atheists dont even believe in many scientists who disagree with them.
Thats due to the fact that Attheists are biased and brainwashed.
Atheists are biggest liars on Earth. Well most of them anyway.
Some are good honest people.
One more thing, in case you hadn't noticed, this topic is not about
the existence of God, as some of you tried to claim.
Look at the title of the thread. How blind can a person be.
The subject is about beautiful virgins as the reason why Heaven is so attractive a prospect for many religious people.
Most of you seem to hate the idea of sex outside this temporary life.
Whats wrong with you guys !!
--
Protium - The Fat Controller:
It would appear you have failed Ray. Good bye.
--
Fantasy Island
You want the Truth?
Talking of Bibles, there are two different versions of it.
One group says the true Bible is the one which the Pope says is true. It is the holy edition that contains full 73 books.
The other group, anti-Pope party has a different Bible, a cut down, censored version that has only 66 books.
It all sounds fishy to me.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Which bits of bible are good and which are bad, in your opinion, Ray?
Today, the Holy Koran is the only Book from God that exists it in its pure and original form.
It shows us exaclty where and how Bible was altered by certain vested interests.
I decided to become a Muslim because its the most rational ideology I have so far discovered.
I believe that Bible is corrupted.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
On what do you base your beliefs in the good of your book and the bad of the other book, Ray?
I would like some sources so I may study. These cites of exact places of corruption of the christian book, by the way, where may I discover them?
You dont even believe in God.
How on Earth can you accept Koran to be book sent by God.
This is simple logic. But you dont seems to even understand this much.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
I say you are engaging in circular reasoning, where you claim your book is true because it is true, so that should prove it is true.
Where did I say Koran is book of God because it says so.
You are putting words into my mouth.
Deception is a cheap tactics by most Atheist who know nothing about reason.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Then tell me why it is true, Ray, big chance for you. Off you go!
What are we going to do about the your lie?
Dont you think that is more important?
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Ray, you are stalling. I don't believe you can tell us how your book is true with logic.
Prove me wrong.
Oh, and some unfinished business:
On what do you base your beliefs in the good of your book and the bad of the other book, Ray?
I would like some sources so I may study.
These cites of exact places of corruption of the christian book, by the way, where may I discover them?
You are being devious after being caught lying.
You will not be able to evaluate any evidence because you have decieved. In a court of law you would be thrown out for lying.
Why have you not replied to my questions?
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Now where am I lying?
What specific thing have I said that is untrue, and
what is the truth of that lie?
Come up with some facts, Ray.
I quoted your lie about me.
Go up and read again what you had said.
I will quote your lie again:
"you are engaging in circular reasoning, where you claim your book is true because it is true, so that should prove it is true."
This is a lie. I said no such thing.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Well, don't worry about me: here's the big chance for you to tell everybody else the truth, Ray.
I am concerned about you.
Not only you lie, you flee when caught lying.
Thats worrying me.
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black
Why not show the people what you're made of?
I have shown everyone here what you are made of.
You lie and then run.
Why do you speak for the people. Have they made you their spokesman?
--
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoer
I thought debating was won with points, more often than repeating that someone else is a liar, without proof.
I have given proof.
Go up and read it again.
He claimed that I believe Koran to be from God because the book says so.
I did no such thing.
He ought to show me where I said such an irrational thing.
Either show it, or apologise for putting words into my mouth which I did not utter.
I cant get any simpler than this.
--
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